rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Lance Armstrong - How Can We Prevent Doping In Pro Sports? - 7 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8ea99936e1707e4b?hl=en
* HOT&EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS&VIDEOS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0df2ef987b8a0411?hl=en
* André Jute needs to wise up - 5 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8c0f169ccadabfe4?hl=en
* Spanish fashion designer Custo Dalmau - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/381242031778e41f?hl=en
* John Howard Today - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2eb00b2292c6bd7b?hl=en
* What does a death on a training ride call us to do? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/15e4a42c98906c64?hl=en
* Lombardia Oct 16th - and travel bikes - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/88be599c75b77242?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Armstrong - How Can We Prevent Doping In Pro Sports?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8ea99936e1707e4b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 12:19 am
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"
Frederick the Great wrote:
> You are not at all sorry; rather, gleeful.
> Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
The end of the world is nigh (Nigh sounds like an Irish town).
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 12:55 am
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Aug 25, 6:43 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 3:46 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 10:23 am, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > Assuming you're serious, I think the main thing that will happen is
> > > the management of sports won't be able to look the other way in the
> > > face of doping. Cycling, and many other sports did less than the bare
> > > minimum to enforce their rules. If we're lucky, we will have
> > > legislation that provides for mandatory third party monitoring and
> > > enforcement and serious penalties for the managers, not just the
> > > athletes. Then, in the long run, we can go back to the myth-making
> > > and heros without the spectre of another 30 dead guys from the next
> > > doping technology before sport and society react. No the sport won't
> > > die, and no it won't thrive just because of enforcement. But it might
> > > avoid the worst of the doping decided performances and harm to
> > > athletes.
>
> > Why? Will any sports managers suffer greatly when
> > LANCE gets sent up the river? Why do you think any
> > penalties for managers will be forthcoming?
>
> Why would you assume Johan or Och for that matter will skate through
> this? It's possible when all is said and done that both take a blow.
> Don't forget Floyd's allegations that these directors / managers of
> two teams (Postal, Phonak) were more than complicit and actually
> conspired to either fund a doping program and help employees evade
> taxes. I think the IRS might get a poke around once some of the dust
> has settled.
>
> > Let's be honest. The sport, or at least the anti-doping crusader
> > part of it, will pile all the sins of doping onto LANCE and
> > send him into the wilderness.
>
> If true don't you think that might actually be fitting in some way? If
> he pulled off the biggest fraud / conspiracy in the history of the
> sport for almost a decade?
>
> > Then we will be free of sin, and
> > dope. That's the way it works. Until we need another
> > scapegoat, at which point I'm sure one can be found.
>
> This is a horseshit argument. I haven't read anyone who has stated
> this. At worst, I've read that it will certainly rid the sport of a
> "cancer" to quote Kimmage. Maybe you should consider the fact that
> these guys aren't necessarily scapegoats, but rather that they are
> guys that have allegedly committed criminal acts and are being held
> accountable.
>
> Most criminals never get caught let alone prosecuted. In white collar
> crimes the clearance rate is 32% according to the FBI. Sorry to say
> that Lance & Co. might just be one of the unlucky 3 out of 10 who made
> conscious decisions to run afoul of the law and deal with the
> consequences, as surely as they have heretofore reaped the benefits.
Dumbass 74,
Look at the "mtb Dad" post I was responding to. Look at all
the anti-LANCE crusaders. There are plenty of people
who think that bringing down LANCE is going to be
a major milestone in the War on Doping, and presumably
that after that, victory will be around the corner. Hey,
we started a War on Drugs, and now there aren't any
more drugs, so the War on Dopes is bound to succeed.
The point of a scapegoat isn't whether the goat is
innocent or not. It probably isn't - it doesn't take much
experience with goats to know that they've almost
certainly done *something* bad. The point is that
the tribe loads all of its sins onto the scapegoat and
sends it off into the wilderness, thereby making the
tribe feel cleansed and proud of itself. Until the next
year when they have to do it again.
As for Johan and Och, I suspect they will skate - they
don't have LANCE's biggest worry, the possibility of a
perjury charge. As I've previously tried to point out to
Laff@me, Och didn't even have anything to do with USPS;
he would have to get nailed by some corroboration of
a Floyd story and on a charge that had nothing to do
with the whole USPS-fraud angle. In any case, if they
do get nailed, I don't think it will lead to increased
penalties for management of riders who dope. At most
it might lead to managers being more sophisticated with
their accounting to avoid getting caught, and sponsors
demanding that managers have a higher level of clean
hands (that is, a higher level of plausible deniability).
If LANCE is a cancer, what healthy tissue is he growing on?
Kimmage seems to think there's some pure essence of
sportsmanship deep down in the sport and if only we got
rid of all the bad people, it would flower, and peace and
love would abound. He's in dreamland. What makes
people dope? It's not immorality. It's competitiveness.
Fredmaster Ben
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 7:49 am
From: William Fred
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote in news:4550e027-f8bf-
4913-a50d-e59bc15c4754@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> If LANCE is a cancer, what healthy tissue is he growing on?
> Kimmage seems to think there's some pure essence of
> sportsmanship deep down in the sport and if only we got
> rid of all the bad people, it would flower, and peace and
> love would abound. He's in dreamland. What makes
> people dope? It's not immorality. It's competitiveness.
Excellent points. Perhaps, this time, he'll get it. However, it is like
explaining climate science to a labrador retriever. It sits there and
looks at you like it's totally getting it, but what it's really doing is
waiting for you to say "walk" or "treat" or drop a potato chip on the
floor. Except in this case you don't get the satisfaction of ever once
feeling like it is sitting there and "listening" to you, even if you
could see what it was doing when it was reading your post.
--
Bill Fred
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 8:39 am
From: DA74
On Aug 25, 11:50 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <b0181124-f897-4a88-9983-f86bc4319...@x18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>
> DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry to say
> > that Lance & Co. might just be one of the unlucky 3 out of 10 who made
> > conscious decisions to run afoul of the law and deal with the
> > consequences, as surely as they have heretofore reaped the benefits.
>
> You are not at all sorry; rather, gleeful.
> Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
>
> --
> Old Fritz
Of course I'm not sorry, Old Futz. Pull out that dusty Merriam-Webster
and look up "wry" - And it has nothing to do with vodka in case you're
getting excited.
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 8:41 am
From: DA74
On Aug 25, 11:52 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <80c9ead0-a7ec-4dd6-b3e3-f3e0cafaa...@k17g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > But I see what you're getting at. Anyone who thinks this will solve
> > anything is completely delusional. It won't. But that doesn't mean to
> > everyone should throw up their hands. What enforcement does is keep
> > the schemers in check until the next generation gruber is introduced.
>
> So. You call for the occasional scapegoat, just as F. Ben says.
> And your choice for scapegoat is LANCE.
>
> --
> Michael Press
I don't understand why he's being referred to as a scapegoat. If he
commited crimes and is being held accountable then it doesn't sound
like he's a scapegoat anymore than any other criminal who gets caught.
Please explain the logic.
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 8:50 am
From: DA74
On Aug 26, 12:55 am, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 25, 6:43 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 3:46 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 23, 10:23 am, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Assuming you're serious, I think the main thing that will happen is
> > > > the management of sports won't be able to look the other way in the
> > > > face of doping. Cycling, and many other sports did less than the bare
> > > > minimum to enforce their rules. If we're lucky, we will have
> > > > legislation that provides for mandatory third party monitoring and
> > > > enforcement and serious penalties for the managers, not just the
> > > > athletes. Then, in the long run, we can go back to the myth-making
> > > > and heros without the spectre of another 30 dead guys from the next
> > > > doping technology before sport and society react. No the sport won't
> > > > die, and no it won't thrive just because of enforcement. But it might
> > > > avoid the worst of the doping decided performances and harm to
> > > > athletes.
>
> > > Why? Will any sports managers suffer greatly when
> > > LANCE gets sent up the river? Why do you think any
> > > penalties for managers will be forthcoming?
>
> > Why would you assume Johan or Och for that matter will skate through
> > this? It's possible when all is said and done that both take a blow.
> > Don't forget Floyd's allegations that these directors / managers of
> > two teams (Postal, Phonak) were more than complicit and actually
> > conspired to either fund a doping program and help employees evade
> > taxes. I think the IRS might get a poke around once some of the dust
> > has settled.
>
> > > Let's be honest. The sport, or at least the anti-doping crusader
> > > part of it, will pile all the sins of doping onto LANCE and
> > > send him into the wilderness.
>
> > If true don't you think that might actually be fitting in some way? If
> > he pulled off the biggest fraud / conspiracy in the history of the
> > sport for almost a decade?
>
> > > Then we will be free of sin, and
> > > dope. That's the way it works. Until we need another
> > > scapegoat, at which point I'm sure one can be found.
>
> > This is a horseshit argument. I haven't read anyone who has stated
> > this. At worst, I've read that it will certainly rid the sport of a
> > "cancer" to quote Kimmage. Maybe you should consider the fact that
> > these guys aren't necessarily scapegoats, but rather that they are
> > guys that have allegedly committed criminal acts and are being held
> > accountable.
>
> > Most criminals never get caught let alone prosecuted. In white collar
> > crimes the clearance rate is 32% according to the FBI. Sorry to say
> > that Lance & Co. might just be one of the unlucky 3 out of 10 who made
> > conscious decisions to run afoul of the law and deal with the
> > consequences, as surely as they have heretofore reaped the benefits.
>
> Dumbass 74,
>
> Look at the "mtb Dad" post I was responding to. Look at all
> the anti-LANCE crusaders. There are plenty of people
> who think that bringing down LANCE is going to be
> a major milestone in the War on Doping, and presumably
> that after that, victory will be around the corner. Hey,
> we started a War on Drugs, and now there aren't any
> more drugs, so the War on Dopes is bound to succeed.
>
> The point of a scapegoat isn't whether the goat is
> innocent or not. It probably isn't - it doesn't take much
> experience with goats to know that they've almost
> certainly done *something* bad. The point is that
> the tribe loads all of its sins onto the scapegoat and
> sends it off into the wilderness, thereby making the
> tribe feel cleansed and proud of itself. Until the next
> year when they have to do it again.
>
> As for Johan and Och, I suspect they will skate - they
> don't have LANCE's biggest worry, the possibility of a
> perjury charge. As I've previously tried to point out to
> Laff@me, Och didn't even have anything to do with USPS;
> he would have to get nailed by some corroboration of
> a Floyd story and on a charge that had nothing to do
> with the whole USPS-fraud angle. In any case, if they
> do get nailed, I don't think it will lead to increased
> penalties for management of riders who dope. At most
> it might lead to managers being more sophisticated with
> their accounting to avoid getting caught, and sponsors
> demanding that managers have a higher level of clean
> hands (that is, a higher level of plausible deniability).
>
> If LANCE is a cancer, what healthy tissue is he growing on?
> Kimmage seems to think there's some pure essence of
> sportsmanship deep down in the sport and if only we got
> rid of all the bad people, it would flower, and peace and
> love would abound. He's in dreamland. What makes
> people dope? It's not immorality. It's competitiveness.
>
> Fredmaster Ben- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bedmaster Fren,
You're creating an either / or contingency to support your argument
with the Lance Witchhunters on one side and the Informed Realists on
the other. This is not how it works, son.
There is a federal investigation currently under way that is
(ostensibly) objectively looking into whether any laws were broken. If
you think the investigation team is made up of a bunch of mtbDads then
you might be a bit disappointed. They probably more resemble robots
than humans.
And your point on immorality vs competitiveness is a largely correct
analysis, although there is always overlap in the real world, so be a
bit more mindful of that fact when you paint with your monochromatic
brushes.
You're Welcome
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 8:55 am
From: DA74
On Aug 26, 7:49 am, William Fred <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in news:4550e027-f8bf-
> 4913-a50d-e59bc15c4...@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > If LANCE is a cancer, what healthy tissue is he growing on?
> > Kimmage seems to think there's some pure essence of
> > sportsmanship deep down in the sport and if only we got
> > rid of all the bad people, it would flower, and peace and
> > love would abound. He's in dreamland. What makes
> > people dope? It's not immorality. It's competitiveness.
>
> Excellent points. Perhaps, this time, he'll get it. However, it is like
> explaining climate science to a labrador retriever. It sits there and
> looks at you like it's totally getting it, but what it's really doing is
> waiting for you to say "walk" or "treat" or drop a potato chip on the
> floor. Except in this case you don't get the satisfaction of ever once
> feeling like it is sitting there and "listening" to you, even if you
> could see what it was doing when it was reading your post.
>
> --
> Bill Fred
Bill Fred,
Don't mistake my quote of that nutjob Kimmage for an endorsement of
his thoughts. It was a literary tool, a term I'd be inclined to use if
asked to describe you - sans the adjective, of course.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT&EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS&VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0df2ef987b8a0411?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 1:44 am
From: guru
FOR HOT HEROINES PHOTOS
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com
AISHWARIYARAI HOT EXPOSING PHOTO
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/aishwariyarai-hot-photo.html
ANKITHA IN A TUB BATH
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/ankitha-in-tub-bath.html
NAMITHA SEXY PHOTO IN BEACH
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/namitha-in-beach.html
CHARMI IN A SEXY FEEL
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/sexy-charmi.html
CHENNAI HOT GIRLS WITH SWIM WEAR
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/chennai-hot-girls.html
KAJAL AGARWALHOT PHOTO
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/kajal-agarwal-hot.html
KATRINA KAIF IN A HOT SAREE
http://hotheroinesphoto.blogspot.com/2010/06/hot-katrina.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: André Jute needs to wise up
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8c0f169ccadabfe4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 1:47 am
From: "Edward Dolan"
"James" <james.e.steward@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:039d6b4a-2715-45e4-abb5-1e243b5ea672@z30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 4:22 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> Anyone who makes their living writing garbage is truly a "useless eater".
> Andre Jute should get a real job, like trying to feed 12 cats (and more
> strays are coming to the house every day). This is a full time job and
> keeps
> me hopping. Hells Bells, who has time to write books, let alone read them.
>> There's your problem. Too many cats. I see in the UK ladies have
taken to simply luring them straight into a nearby rubbish bin.
Someone should lure you into a nearby by rubbish bin if you ask me.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 1:50 am
From: "Edward Dolan"
"James" <james.e.steward@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0d1c06aa-37e3-4b92-8881-f546cda73b74@o7g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 8:34 am, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 4:22 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who makes their living writing garbage is truly a "useless
> > eater".
> > Andre Jute should get a real job, like trying to feed 12 cats (and more
> > strays are coming to the house every day). This is a full time job and
> > keeps
> > me hopping. Hells Bells, who has time to write books, let alone read
> > them.
>
> There's your problem. Too many cats. I see in the UK ladies have
> taken to simply luring them straight into a nearby rubbish bin.
>>> It doesn't get much better than this...
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-11087061
>>> What a hoot!
No one with a brain in his head will ever go to a link unless it is fully
explained beforehand.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 1:59 am
From: "Edward Dolan"
"Tom Sherman °_°" <twshermanREMOVE@THISsouthslope.net> wrote in message
news:i545k7$umn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 8/25/2010 1:06 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> [...]
>> The most important class you will ever take in college is the one you
>> take
>> in your freshman year called English composition. It is there that you
>> learn
>> how to organize your thoughts and write them so that others can read with
>> some comprehension.[...]
>
> Assuming your English professor is not one of those wacko nuts that
> teaches some artsy-fartsy writing style.
Most freshman English composition courses are taught by graduate students
who take their job very seriously. Professors will never spend time
correcting freshman composition papers, which is the essence of a
composition class.
> I cured several undergrads of that mistake when I taught a laboratory in a
> materials testing class where the homework was in the form of technical
> papers.
I suspect that would be good instruction for anyone writing anything.
Hemingway, a writer whom I do not particularly like, was also good at
eschewing fancy writing.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 2:11 am
From: "Edward Dolan"
"Andre Jute" <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:83c9cde4-c582-42c9-b444-a979d28fe5d7@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 11:31 pm, Tom Sherman °_°
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> I cured several undergrads of that mistake [writing style] when I taught a
> laboratory in
> a materials testing class where the homework was in the form of
> technical papers.
>> Christ! Gives new meaning to the phrase: "Those who can, do. Those who
can't, teach." Poor bloody undergraduates, being taught expression by
Liddell Tommi Sherman, whose catchphrase is "Duh?"
Teaching is as fully important as "doing". Mr. Sherman was not teaching
expression, he was teaching exactitude.
Mr. Sherman was one of the very few members on these bicycle newsgroups who
impressed me by his writing ability. He does not waste a lot of words like
you and I do. I think we could both benefit from following his example.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 2:19 am
From: "Edward Dolan"
"Kevan Smith" <dr.goodeyes@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bGdnfj6M_y-5ejRnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 8/25/10 1:32 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> I stopped reading fiction when I turned 30. I could no long identify with
>> the protagonist. The reading of fiction is primarily a teenager thing.
>
> Wow, you sure cut out a lot of great culture. If you want to get back into
> it, may I recommend Saramago's novel, "The Cave," which, as the title
> suggests, is based on Plato.
Philosophy is a dead end. I discovered that plowing my way through them all
up to Bertrand Russell, at which point it turned into linguistics. What a
total waste of time, although I suspect all that reading does sharpen the
mind somewhat.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spanish fashion designer Custo Dalmau
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/381242031778e41f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 3:20 am
From: Superfly TNT
.
.
.
Spanish fashion designer Custo Dalmau smiles as he poses behind a
mannequin wearing the new leader's jersey he designed for the 75th
Vuelta a Espana which starts August 28th. His design is a metaphor
between the cheetah and the cyclist. "This animal and the cyclist have
things in common – speed, their position in the race and both run by
nature" he said.
.
.
http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2010/vuelta-a-espana/jersey-rollout-RTR292JL-640.jpg
.
.
.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: John Howard Today
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2eb00b2292c6bd7b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 5:58 am
From: Fred on a stick
On 8/25/2010 8:26 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>> Judging by that bike, the dude must be 7-feet tall.
>
> He's like Jobst.
Bitter and dismissive?
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:29 am
From: --D-y
On Aug 25, 2:29 pm, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
wrote:
> On 8/25/2010 2:06 PM, BLafferty wrote:
>
> > On 8/25/2010 2:40 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
> >>http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/interviews/howard-now.jpg
>
> > Great cyclist and a real gentleman. I helped pace him to his record in
> > the Pepsi 24 Hour Challenge in NYC's Central Park when Lenny Preheim
> > arranged for him to do the ride with support from Toga. He's aging well.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I thought you didn't care for people that lied under oath.
On the other hand, maybe he did have a QR loosen.
I have seen someone lose a front wheel; guessing by using the flipper
backwards or something. Jr. racer, big-time little-league dad who
didn't know how to put a wheel in. One face the lawyer lips might have
"saved", and that's not the only wheel I've seen (incl. rears, of
course) where the QR was a mystery to the operator thereof.
Scuse me while I stick up for one of my early heroes, long before I
adopted Texas.
--D-y
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:43 am
From: BLafferty
On 8/26/2010 9:29 AM, --D-y wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2:29 pm, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> On 8/25/2010 2:06 PM, BLafferty wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/25/2010 2:40 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
>>>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/interviews/howard-now.jpg
>>
>>> Great cyclist and a real gentleman. I helped pace him to his record in
>>> the Pepsi 24 Hour Challenge in NYC's Central Park when Lenny Preheim
>>> arranged for him to do the ride with support from Toga. He's aging well.
>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> I thought you didn't care for people that lied under oath.
>
> On the other hand, maybe he did have a QR loosen.
> I have seen someone lose a front wheel; guessing by using the flipper
> backwards or something. Jr. racer, big-time little-league dad
> didn't know how to put a wheel in. One face the lawyer lips might have
> "saved", and that's not the only wheel I've seen(incl. rears, of
> course) where the QR was a mystery to the operator thereof.
>
> Scuse me while I stick up for one of my early heroes, long before I
> adopted Texas.
> --D-y
Back in the late 1990s I was riding with a guy out of Fairhope, AL.
Unknown to me his front quick release wasn't working so he just
tightened it by screwing it down. While riding next to him, his front
wheel came out, the fork went straight down into the pavement and acted
like the fulcrum of a catapult. Amazing crash. He survived. Helmet was
in many pieces and they thought he had a bleed on his brain. Turned out
he didn't.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 7:08 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 8/26/2010 8:29 AM, --D-y wrote:
> Scuse me while I stick up for one of my early heroes, long before I
> adopted Texas.
You need better heroes than some guy that will make shit up for an
expert witness fee. I mean, really!!
Fred Flintstein
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 9:16 am
From: --D-y
On Aug 26, 8:43 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 8/26/2010 9:29 AM, --D-y wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 2:29 pm, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> On 8/25/2010 2:06 PM, BLafferty wrote:
>
> >>> On 8/25/2010 2:40 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
> >>>>http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/interviews/howard-now.jpg
>
> >>> Great cyclist and a real gentleman. I helped pace him to his record in
> >>> the Pepsi 24 Hour Challenge in NYC's Central Park when Lenny Preheim
> >>> arranged for him to do the ride with support from Toga. He's aging well.
>
> >> Dumbass,
>
> >> I thought you didn't care for people that lied under oath.
>
> > On the other hand, maybe he did have a QR loosen.
> > I have seen someone lose a front wheel; guessing by using the flipper
> > backwards or something. Jr. racer, big-time little-league dad
> > didn't know how to put a wheel in. One face the lawyer lips might have
> > "saved", and that's not the only wheel I've seen(incl. rears, of
> > course) where the QR was a mystery to the operator thereof.
>
> > Scuse me while I stick up for one of my early heroes, long before I
> > adopted Texas.
> > --D-y
>
> Back in the late 1990s I was riding with a guy out of Fairhope, AL.
> Unknown to me his front quick release wasn't working so he just
> tightened it by screwing it down. While riding next to him, his front
> wheel came out, the fork went straight down into the pavement and acted
> like the fulcrum of a catapult. Amazing crash. He survived. Helmet was
> in many pieces and they thought he had a bleed on his brain. Turned out
> he didn't.
Wow. Here I am wondering how someone could mis-use a QR, and the
answer is pretty simple-- "just don't use it at all".
I mean, I've seen them break from over-tightening, but there's a "pow"
sort of like a spoke breaking only (no surprise), like a really heavy-
gauge spoke. There apparently is enough of a delay between tightening
and breaking in at least some cases that the bike could be rolling
with rider on board for the moment. I didn't hear such a noise when
the kid's wheel flew out. Possible I was standing close but not close
enough to hear the pow. And like I said, I've seen some kind of
flipper that had limited action when flipped backwards, and I might
have even seen a wheel or two "done up" that way back in the murky
past; I'm not sure any known QR would have any degree of "hold" when
run backwards, like to the point where it wouldn't just flop open.
Dang, never would have occurred to me to just try to use the screw
end. But I bet that has happened a lot, and the lawyer lips have saved
faces and brains (usually where you land I think when the front wheel
disappears beneath you).
Thanks. Mystery "solved" or close enough via plausible explanation.
--D-y
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 9:24 am
From: --D-y
On Aug 26, 9:08 am, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
wrote:
> On 8/26/2010 8:29 AM, --D-y wrote:
>
> > Scuse me while I stick up for one of my early heroes, long before I
> > adopted Texas.
>
> You need better heroes than some guy that will make shit up for an
> expert witness fee. I mean, really!!
Well, I tried John Wayne and Abraham Lincoln and Dwight David
Eisenhower and some other guys, too, but it turned out they all had
feet of clay, so to speak.
Suggestions?
I know Howard's testimony came before the advent of disc brakes and
the problems disc users have had with loosening QR's, but I guess I
could ask: are there in fact instances of skewers coming loose?
I'd have to see the testimony, and maybe even know the thought
process-- was Howard referring to improperly manipulated skewers? Any
citation or reference to that, including maybe an interview not
totally loaded with softballs?
--D-y
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What does a death on a training ride call us to do?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/15e4a42c98906c64?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:20 am
From: --D-y
On Aug 25, 8:20 pm, "almost_f...@yahoo.com" <almost_f...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Kurt Hovelijnck, pro cyclist, fractured his skull in a training
> accident.
>
> Should we encourage riders to wear helmets? What other reaction can
> there be? Assuming Mr. Hovelijnck's fans care, how can they help
> prevent similar cycling injuries? Surely there's more to a reasoned
> reaction than calling for mandatory use of helmets? What are some
> other possibilities?
Hey Half-fast:
Why the "death" in your subject line? I looked up Hovelijnck; he
fractured his skull in training March '09and was back racing again
this season, after being in a coma for some time immed. following his
accident.
No mention of HELLLLMET in anything I read; IOW, if he hadn't been, I
would expect at least one source would have mentioned that as a sop to
phony hand-wringers like you.
One "possibility" is for you to take your nasty lying troll shit out
of here and stay away if that's the kind of nasty stinking crap you're
going to drag in here.
--D-y
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:42 am
From: Anton Berlin
We should require him to wear a helmet just as we should have required
your father to wear a condom.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:44 am
From: BLafferty
On 8/26/2010 9:42 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> We should require him to wear a helmet just as we should have required
> your father to wear a condom.
>
Cold, Anton. Cold.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lombardia Oct 16th - and travel bikes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/88be599c75b77242?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:45 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Aug 25, 6:00 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0662e82e-9192-4720-9cde-e17a537bf66a@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > GF and I are going to Europe again for a few weeks and the timing is
> > such that we can catch Lombardia
>
> > Anyone ever done this ? We love lake Como but don't want to get
> > caught in a clusterfuck traffic jam to Milan and further south
>
> > Lastly she's against taking full size bicycles about as much as I am
> > on not taking fs bikes. I've looked at everything, Bike Fridays, the
> > S and S couplings, even bought a Damocles w/o ISP to insure I had a
> > modern bike to travel with but in the end nothing really beats having
> > a full size bike if you're going to ride.
>
> > Is anyone really satisfied on a bike with 16" wheels?
>
> 16" wheels, no. But 20" wheels, as found on the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
> (and Pocket Rocket Pro) do very well indeed. My son and I did the last 9
> days of the Tour de France on Pocket Rockets and had no issues climbing the
> Port de Bales, Soulor/Aubisque and Tourmalet. You get them custom-built to
> your own dimensions so you can completely mimic your current road bike for
> fit. Pretty amazing little machines.
>
> But there's no way to get one soon enough; it takes about 4 weeks to have
> one built up for you. But they do work, much better than I expected. And
> it's fun passing people on "real" bikes who previously had made fun of you.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Mike,
Where is the center of the bottom bracket in relation to a straight
line drawn between the center of the hubs? Does this relationship
affect handling?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 26 2010 6:46 am
From: Anton Berlin
She kept referring to me as "anton" when we were in the shop.... but
no one picked up on it.
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