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Today's topics:
* Serious question about a 'private' cycling club - closed routes - 23
messages, 13 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce27755f58e44ec5?hl=en
* WTF!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/782fda1120024388?hl=en
* Are you fucking kidding me? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8bf2ef5682f12581?hl=en
* What America needs is less leadership - more followship - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/655f5663904104ce?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Serious question about a 'private' cycling club - closed routes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce27755f58e44ec5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 2:55 pm
From: Jay Beattie
On Jul 7, 1:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
We've got something like that over at the Alpenrose Dairy -- and it
gets a lot of use. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/26890556/
Works great once you get used to the banks. You can really assert
yourself in (bicycle) traffic, too.
-- Jay Beattie.
P.S. Why doesn't your friend just buy a big chunk of land (say
Nevada, where it's cheap) and get a mountain bike?
== 2 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 2:58 pm
From: AMuzi
Choppy Warburton wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
It's not a totally stupid idea. Auto private courses have
succeeded and there are a gazillion types of cyclist, some
number of whom just hate streets. Has he consulted with a
ski area or skateboard park operator? He should.
That said, if I were a banker I'd want to see a major metro
area within an hour's drive, a serious marketing budget, a
marketing plan with tie-ins to major retailers and media
beyond the usual business plan investment/ maintenance/
liability/ projected revenue and expense numbers.
Probably plan for a very high staff component with medical
crew on duty and an all-points monitored camera system.
Selling 'safe' implies a high level of service compared to a
show-and-go club ride on public roads and probably some
higher liability for same. (note I am not an attorney. Jay?)
I'm assuming you can't charge the same $10,000 per year
membership that auto race courses garner. OTOH car venues
can't put a hundred amateurs on the same loop at the same time.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
== 3 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 3:17 pm
From: James
Choppy Warburton wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
Build it and they will come...
Well, some will come.
Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee
shop and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No
way I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too
many mountains to climb.
--
JS.
== 4 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 3:19 pm
From: ilan
On Jul 7, 10:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
If he's nervous about cycling in traffic, he's going to have it worse
on roads reserved for cyclists. I always try to avoid bicycle paths
for that reason. One of the most dangerous experiences I've had on the
road is when they closed off Canada road North of Woodside and have
having to navigate through zig-zagging incompetent and self-righteous
cyclists.
-ilan
== 5 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 3:24 pm
From: Brad Anders
Depending on the location and how it was implemented, I think it could
be very successful. I've lived in two major metro areas (SF Bay Area
and now, Phoenix) in the past 30 years and I've met many people who
were interested in road cycling, but too scared of riding on roads
with cars to take it up. I grew up with road cycling as a kid in the
Washington DC area, traffic has never bothered me. However, for those
who take up cycling in their late 20's and 30's (or later), it's not
hard to see how they'd find traffic in a major metro area scary. I
think the only way something like this could succeed would be if the
investor bought a property that already had roads built on it, and
updated or expanded them for cycling. Paving from scratch on a
property would be extremely expensive, hard to see how the operation
would be profitable. Perhaps another way to make it more attractive is
to make it a multi-use facility that could support road cycling, MTB,
hiking, equestrian, etc. - a.k.a. a city park.
== 6 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 3:59 pm
From: --D-y
On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
development:
http://www.veloway.com/
A velodrome for Austin was sabotaged in order to pay for this, not
"bike lanes". Whatever.
I don't much like riding there but it does have some users incl.
skaters and bikers of all ages and persuasions. On a "busy" day, the
surrounding roads, even shoulders of 4-lanes, and other venues I'd
also not rather ride on, are much busier. So, IOW, good luck charging
admission and floating the project that way. Do it The American Way,
like Gary Bradley did, and get the taxpayers to build it for you...
Gary Bradley's legal problems are well documented for anyone wanting
to "look him up".
Austin is seeing something of a Golden Age with various improvements
being built to make "road sharing" much safer for cyclists. This is a
better way to go. It takes government "interest" such as (for example)
"City Bicycle Coordinators" working with local and state (TxDOT)
officials to get the motion going, so to speak. It's working here.
Even where it's just stripes and signs, etc., it works, and where
actual infrastructure is implemented, wow. A little willing peaceful
coexistence does a lot for my confidence.
--D-y
== 7 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 6:05 pm
From: Frank Krygowski
On Jul 7, 6:59 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> > thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> > charge a membership for.
>
> > I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> > into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> > of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> > Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> > basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> > Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> > area for bikes.
>
> > TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
> development:http://www.veloway.com/
Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
<yawn>
But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
to pay for itself, or even come close.
I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
dangerous.
- Frank Krygowski
== 8 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 6:08 pm
From: Dan O
On Jul 7, 6:05 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 6:59 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> > > thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> > > charge a membership for.
>
> > > I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> > > into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> > > of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> > > Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> > > basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> > > Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> > > area for bikes.
>
> > > TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> > One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
> > development:http://www.veloway.com/
>
> Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
> <yawn>
>
> But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> to pay for itself, or even come close.
>
> I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
> roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
> hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
>
> I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> dangerous.
>
Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
"being" in the real world while you're at it.
(Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
too.)
== 9 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 6:15 pm
From: Nate Nagel
On 07/07/2011 09:08 PM, Dan O wrote:
> On Jul 7, 6:05 pm, Frank Krygowski<frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 7, 6:59 pm, --D-y<dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton<choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>>>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
>>>> charge a membership for.
>>
>>>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>>>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
>>>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>
>>>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>>>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>
>>>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
>>>> area for bikes.
>>
>>>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>>
>>> One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
>>> development:http://www.veloway.com/
>>
>> Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
>> <yawn>
>>
>> But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
>> another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
>> kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
>> And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>>
>> Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
>> there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
>> to pay for itself, or even come close.
>>
>> I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
>> roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
>> hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
>>
>> I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
>> course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
>> dangerous.
>>
>
> Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
> "being" in the real world while you're at it.
>
> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> too.)
I agree! that's pretty much how I came back to cycling - needed
something to do to combat the forces of laziness, but working out in a
gym sucks. But cycling, you actually *get* somewhere...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
== 10 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 6:16 pm
From: Anton Berlin
They built the Fred Cappy crit course in Colorado Springs - no one
rode it much except on race days.
== 11 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 7:04 pm
From: AMuzi
-snip snip-
Dan O wrote:
> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> too.)
Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
models
http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
"Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
== 12 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:09 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 7/7/2011 5:17 PM, James wrote:
> Choppy Warburton wrote:
>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
>> charge a membership for.
>>
>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>
>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>
>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
>> area for bikes.
>>
>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> Build it and they will come...
>
> Well, some will come.
>
> Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
>
> Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
> trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee shop
> and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No way
> I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too many
> mountains to climb.
>
There is a locally made product (for James, that is) to deal with bad
weather.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 13 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:10 pm
From: --D-y
On Jul 7, 8:05 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 6:59 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> > > thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> > > charge a membership for.
>
> > > I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> > > into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> > > of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> > > Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> > > basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> > > Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> > > area for bikes.
>
> > > TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> > One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
> > development:http://www.veloway.com/
>
> Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
> <yawn>
>
> But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> to pay for itself, or even come close.
>
> I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
> roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
> hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
>
> I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> dangerous.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Where did you see anything about charging admission at the Veloway,
Frank? And then it was off to the races... so to speak. Again.
Even after I said there are usually more (far more) riders on the
surrounding streets, even where what that means is riding on the
shoulder (wide!) of a four-lane-- one, a 65 (+) N-S limited-access
arterial, one a narrower road, similar, and another a "35mph"
neighborhood four-lane. Just to fill out another detail or two.
Point being, the Veloway does have ridership, it is excluded from
motor traffic, and it was paid for to some large extent or another by
COA even when it wasn't inside Austin proper.
The Veloway itself was, in effect, an "advertisement" for Gary
Bradley's housing development.
Do you get that I am not any kind of fan of the Veloway yet?
--D-y
== 14 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:23 pm
From: Joy Beeson
On Thu, 7 Jul 2011 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT), Choppy Warburton
<choppywarburton@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
Where are these paths going to go? Is he also going to build grocery
stores, hardware stores, homes, theaters, etc.?
Seeing the crosspost, I suppose it could be that he's building racing
tracks, rather than cycling paths.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
== 15 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:37 pm
From: James
Tºm Shermªn °_° > wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 5:17 PM, James wrote:
>> Choppy Warburton wrote:
>>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
>>> charge a membership for.
>>>
>>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
>>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>>
>>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>>
>>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
>>> area for bikes.
>>>
>>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>>
>> Build it and they will come...
>>
>> Well, some will come.
>>
>> Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
>>
>> Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
>> trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee shop
>> and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No way
>> I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too many
>> mountains to climb.
>>
>
> There is a locally made product (for James, that is) to deal with bad
> weather.
>
Yes, it's called a 'house'. There is also a thing called a 'garage'
where I can go play when the weather is bad.
--
JS.
== 16 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:48 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 7/7/2011 5:19 PM, ilan wrote:
> On Jul 7, 10:57 pm, Choppy Warburton<choppywarbur...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
>> charge a membership for.
>>
>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>
>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>
>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
>> area for bikes.
>>
>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> If he's nervous about cycling in traffic, he's going to have it worse
> on roads reserved for cyclists. I always try to avoid bicycle paths
> for that reason. One of the most dangerous experiences I've had on the
> road is when they closed off Canada road North of Woodside and have
> having to navigate through zig-zagging incompetent and self-righteous
> cyclists.
They should build paved tracks, but put horizontal bars at about 3 feet
off ground all the way across the pavement at regular intervals.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 17 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 8:59 pm
From: Postman Delivers
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:55:51 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Jul 7, 1:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and charge
>> a membership for.
>>
>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety of
>> using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>
>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>
>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage area
>> for bikes.
>>
>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> We've got something like that over at the Alpenrose Dairy -- and it gets
> a lot of use. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/26890556/ Works
> great once you get used to the banks. You can really assert yourself in
> (bicycle) traffic, too.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
> P.S. Why doesn't your friend just buy a big chunk of land (say Nevada,
> where it's cheap) and get a mountain bike?
* * *
Jay Beattie,
I am in Southern Nevada and ride a road bicycle, rather than a mountain
bike!!!
However we do have a large changing population that rides 35+ pound
mountain bikes that seem to come from the large Retail Stores to and from
work. It seems there are more bicycles on the roads each month.
Currently it is quite warm to commute towards home in the afternoons,
maybe not as difficult as the humid areas in other sections of the
country ( 112 °F days we had last week is hot).
Tis funny, after a month or two, I have seen many of the riders on my
daily route change to a lighter hybrid, or road bike, rather than
continue riding the suspension style bicycles they first appear to try
and ride as commuters. Some start and ride for several weeks, to
disappear but others seems to continue the daily commute and change the
bicycle they are riding.
JR
== 18 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:02 pm
From: --D-y
On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
(Whoops. Frank wrote):
> > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
How many laps did you keep track of, Frank? Was she timing, too? More
important, do you know anything about this person, really? I mean,
maybe there's a job (that paid for the "full roadie kit") and a
family, and time on the day for some laps...
What's wrong with roadie kit, in the first place, Frank? Or riding on
the drops, for that matter? If she's not using bar ends, on a bike
with fenders and racks and a generator light, is there something wrong
with what she's doing?
> > Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> > there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> > to pay for itself, or even come close.
MOS, Frank-- the Veloway is free to ride on, if you'd do more than
glance and return to spew. I already addressed the economic aspect,
totally, "in front". But, you go on!
> > I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
> > roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
> > hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
He found more creative ways to go bankrupt, from what I understand.
> > I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> > course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> > dangerous.
Maybe he already did "take a course on bicycling". Maybe he's been
deliberately knocked down by a motorist. Or been hassled by punks
because he had lycra britches on. I know someone who saved himself
from a "two-up", unprovoked beating by pulling a weapon (knife) on a
couple of gangbanger punks, even here in Austin. Ever have someone
throw a nearly full can of beer at you, Frank? I have.
(OK, I'm ready for Dan now):
> Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
> "being" in the real world while you're at it.
That and being able to leave from your own dwelling and return also
via bike.
However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
chicken")?
> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> too.)
No, only a few portable outhouses, a drinking fountain, and some
"manners" signs. BYOS I guess.
Yeah, Dan, those poor besotted souls who bring their families out for
a few laps around the Veloway, there's something wrong with them.
Ditto the beginners, with "guides", and, more specifically, the women
beginners who are taking those first steps toward participating in the
Danskins Triathlon and/or the "charity" rides in the Danskins season.
http://www.danskintriathlon.net/ If you read, try to do a better job
IRT "comprehension" than Frank did with the Veloway link. As I've said
here before, there is a large female bike culture here in Austin, with
an organic relationship with Danskins and other springtime events
which are deliberately scheduled (at least in some years) to provide
training miles for Danskins. They're not the racer crowd, those
females, they're people, often in "full generic roadie kit", who go
out and ride their asses off and have a blast doing it.
Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
cagers" as you call them.
OK the Tour is back on. Of France. Full roadie kit, etc. etc.
--D-y
== 19 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:11 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 7/7/2011 10:37 PM, James wrote:
> Tºm Shermªn °_° > wrote:
>> On 7/7/2011 5:17 PM, James wrote:
>>> Choppy Warburton wrote:
>>>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
>>>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
>>>> charge a membership for.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
>>>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
>>>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>>>>
>>>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
>>>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>>>>
>>>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
>>>> area for bikes.
>>>>
>>>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>>>
>>> Build it and they will come...
>>>
>>> Well, some will come.
>>>
>>> Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
>>>
>>> Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
>>> trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee shop
>>> and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No way
>>> I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too many
>>> mountains to climb.
>>>
>>
>> There is a locally made product (for James, that is) to deal with bad
>> weather.
>>
>
> Yes, it's called a 'house'. There is also a thing called a 'garage'
> where I can go play when the weather is bad.
>
This is more fun than being in the garage:
<http://www.trisled.com.au/rotovelo.asp>. Ride down to Dromana and
check one out.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 20 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:15 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 7/7/2011 11:02 PM, --D-y wrote:
> [...]
> However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
> level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
> thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
> go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
> behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
> stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
> chicken")?[...]
I would greatly enjoy it if an inline skater tried that on me.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 21 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:45 pm
From: Dan O
On Jul 7, 9:02 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> (OK, I'm ready for Dan now):
>
> > Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
> > "being" in the real world while you're at it.
>
> That and being able to leave from your own dwelling and return also
> via bike.
>
> However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
> level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
> thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
> go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
> behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
> stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
> chicken")?
>
'Cause most of my riding is undertaken for practical transportation
purposes (?)
And as for my discomfort with the car culture - bring it on, baby!
Mad Max runs the gauntlet - whjee!
> > (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> > too.)
>
> No, only a few portable outhouses, a drinking fountain, and some
> "manners" signs. BYOS I guess.
>
> Yeah, Dan, those poor besotted souls who bring their families out for
> a few laps around the Veloway, there's something wrong with them.
> Ditto the beginners, with "guides", and, more specifically, the women
> beginners who are taking those first steps toward participating in the
> Danskins Triathlon and/or the "charity" rides in the Danskins season.
>
> http://www.danskintriathlon.net/ If you read, try to do a better job
> IRT "comprehension" than Frank did with the Veloway link. As I've said
> here before, there is a large female bike culture here in Austin, with
> an organic relationship with Danskins and other springtime events
> which are deliberately scheduled (at least in some years) to provide
> training miles for Danskins. They're not the racer crowd, those
> females, they're people, often in "full generic roadie kit", who go
> out and ride their asses off and have a blast doing it.
>
> Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
> error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
> riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
> cagers" as you call them.
>
No, no - you misunderstand me. That's all well and good if they like
it; it's just not my thing, man.
> OK the Tour is back on. Of France. Full roadie kit, etc. etc.
I wear full bike-specific apparel for my commute, but nothing too
flashy - Nashbar sale stuff, etc.
== 22 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:49 pm
From: Dan O
On Jul 7, 7:04 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> -snip snip-
>
> Dan O wrote:
> > (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> > too.)
>
> Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
> models
>
> http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
>
> "Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
>
Oh, that. Very nice.
I was talking about this, of course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
== 23 of 23 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 9:50 pm
From: Dan O
On Jul 7, 8:37 pm, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tºm Shermªn °_° > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 7/7/2011 5:17 PM, James wrote:
> >> Choppy Warburton wrote:
> >>> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> >>> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> >>> charge a membership for.
>
> >>> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> >>> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> >>> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> >>> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> >>> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> >>> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> >>> area for bikes.
>
> >>> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> >> Build it and they will come...
>
> >> Well, some will come.
>
> >> Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
>
> >> Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
> >> trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee shop
> >> and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No way
> >> I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too many
> >> mountains to climb.
>
> > There is a locally made product (for James, that is) to deal with bad
> > weather.
>
> Yes, it's called a 'house'. There is also a thing called a 'garage'
> where I can go play when the weather is bad.
>
"Some people feel the rain; others just get wet" :-)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WTF!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/782fda1120024388?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 3:46 pm
From: ilan
On Jul 6, 9:14 pm, atriage <atri...@notvalid.net> wrote:
> "After reviewing the intermediate sprint it has been decided by the race jury to
> relegate Jose Joaquin Rojas and Tom Boonen from the intermediate sprint, said
> the race s competition director, Jean-Francois Pescheux.
> This is really stupid, Rojas should have been penalised sure but Boonen had no
> choice but to move over into Cavendish's path when Rojas swerved into him. What
> did they think he was gonna do...brake ffs.
>
> --
"With a GC contender in Van Den Broeck, the man of the moment in
Gilbert and a sprinter that has flattered to deceive in Greipel,"
What does that even mean? What is going on with CyclingNews
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergeant-downplays-talk-of-strife-within-the-team
-ilan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you fucking kidding me?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8bf2ef5682f12581?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 4:25 pm
From: Michael Press
In article
<7ae1e0b4-1a8b-4a9d-8381-2839db47aec0@d8g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Randall the Top Poster <randall.shimizu@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's hard to draw any firm conclusions about AC's form at this point.
> But since AC was unable to win on the hill it may give some indication
> of his climbing form. The other fact is that since AC is injured than
> this can only add to the pressure on him.
Watch what happens in the Pyrenees, then get back to us.
> On Jul 5, 7:50 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 5, 9:27 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 4, 10:27 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Anyone that thinks AC's deficit is an issue didn't watch the Giro this
> > > > year. It might have been the toughest grand tour in history and AC
> > > > barely broke a sweat while shredding the rest of them. Once iit
> > > > heads uphill he'll have no problem taking it out on the peloton.
> >
> > > > I hate the little motherfucker but only a crash or a positive test
> > > > will keep him from winning.
> >
> > > Yep, AC really showed them today when it turned uphill. He spent more
> > > time looking behind him then in front. I guess he was just toying
> > > with them, huh? Sheesh. He couldn't out sprint Cadel.
> >
> > > R
> >
> > Don't be obtuse. You know damn well that today's "uphill" wasn't the
> > sort of uphill that matters, and while he didn't outsprint Cadel he
> > did outsprint everyone else, to include Gilbert and Hushovd and
> > Vinokourov, all people pretty well known for their uphill sprinting
> > abilities (well, maybe not Hushovd). The fact that AC didn't lose
> > time was impressive enough, contesting the sprint was a big sign of
> > his intentions to prove a point.
--
Michael Press
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What America needs is less leadership - more followship
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/655f5663904104ce?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 7 2011 6:12 pm
From: Anton Berlin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ
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